Gentlemen (Syed Aslam, Enayet Hossain, Enayet Hossain, Leslie Seifert, Enayet, MURSHED Hossain, Milan, Satej, Siraj, Tanveer, Saidur, at al .......),
First of all, please do not take it otherwise, but I want just to share with you my take on this issue. By my opinion, "WATER AS FUEL" is something not actually realistic as of today, might be in future, when situations change around.
When I was a lower year university student (sometimes in the early seventies), someone from USSR came and demonstrated a car's engine running with water. In that time, it was considered, almost like a miracle, and it was a real face to face technological demonstration. However, until now that technology is in infancy. Why it is so? I guess it was not viable, and so has not been flourished and commercialized until now. It is not a new technology, in fact it is one of the oldest technologies. Using the word "WATER" is actually a misnomer. The role of water is not prevalent here. "FUEL CELL" is what makes it happen. The fuel cell is like a dry or well cell that we use to produce electricity calling it a battery. As all of you know, chemical reaction produces electricity in the batteries. Similarly, fuel cell breaks water molecules (H2O) into HH and O. HH is collected and used in the engines that can be run with hydrogen, similar to gasoline or diesel engines. Basically internal combustion engines. Hydrogen engines are used in many sophisticated and research works, including in the rockets, satellites or sky-labs, etc.
The trouble is that you invariably need electricity or similar other energy to produce hydrogen from water, using the fuel cells. This is not yet cost-effective or environmentally helpful. Until now, to spend lot more to produce hydrogen, and the other energies that need to be used to produce hydrogen, pollute the environment lot more than what would be saved by using hydrogen engines.
So, fuel cell is still like the "ETHANOL SAGA" that is costing the nations at least 3-folds compared to gasoline, and polluting at least 5-folds during its production, also compared to gasoline that would pollute the environment. But why it is going on still? One is "QUEST", two is "POLITICS", and three is "MULTINATIONAL COMPANY'S PROFIT".
Should we not think all these together and engage our valuable thoughts, money, and time? Innovation is always good, but to choose something for public, for a nation, and for mother earth, I believe, we must seriously brainstorm.
Thanks,
KR
> To: bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com
> From: bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 16:32:27 -0400
> Subject: [bdresearchers] 3 more replies - "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol"
>
> Messages List
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 1. Syed Aslam, Re: "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol"
> 2. Enayet Hossain, Re: "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol"
> 3. Kazi farhan Ahmed, Re: "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol"
>
>
> Reply 1
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: "Syed Aslam" <Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:32 pm
> Subject: Re: [bdresearchers] 4 replies - "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hydrogen fuels cells can power your car, more
>
> Leslie Seifert | Editor
> July 27, 2008
>
> All research, edging as it does into the unknown, carries a degree of risk of failure. Hazem Tawfik, professor and director of the Institute for Research and Technology Transfer at Farmingdale State College, describes his experience developing hydrogen fuel cells to produce energy that he hopes someday will power our automobiles. He spoke with editor Leslie Seifert.
> A hydrogen fuel cell has two sides separated by a membrane. You feed hydrogen into one side of the cell and air with oxygen into the other side. The result is electric energy and heat, a source of clean energy.
>
> The membrane has two plates made of graphite composites, which are known to be brittle and permeable to gases. Due to their poor manufacturability, graphite plates are not cost-effective to fabricate, unlike aluminum. In our work, we wanted to replace the graphite with aluminum; it's more durable, more cost-effective and has better thermal and electrical conductivity.
>
> But aluminum is also very conducive to corrosion in the harsh environment of the fuel cell, where the temperature is a maximum of 80 degrees and the relative humidity close to 95 percent. This can be damaging to the membrane and electrodes, and the catalyst in the fuel cell, which would result in considerably less power.
>
> Research is draining on any budget; to minimize risk and exorbitant costs, we did a feasibility study. Our main task was to see how we could combat corrosion in the aluminum. Without this, we could not go ahead.
>
> We created miniature cells with tiny plates of aluminum coated with corrosion-resistant material. It doesn't take much labor or materials to make them. We tested more than 10 different alloys in the coating and observed which one performed the best. Feasibility studies such as this are necessary to minimize research and development costs.
>
> The risk we ran into was this: The process of coating the plate involves high heat. You heat one side of the plate while the other side stays cold. This caused the plate to curve.
>
> At the beginning we didn't know what to do with it. Our main thrust was to develop the anti-corrosion coating. But if the plate deformed excessively, the cell would not work. Hydrogen would leak out - it's a very explosive gas.
>
> We concluded that we would have to treat both surfaces of the plate equally, to minimize a mismatch of temperatures - and reduce, minimize or eliminate the deformation in the fuel cell. We have managed to reduce it now to an acceptable level.
>
> In the next stage, we want to go to a larger size cell, which gives more power.
>
> We will have to modify the design. As the scale gets bigger, you have heat and water management problems. There's the possibility of gas and liquids flowing simultaneously, which is easy to manage on a small scale, but on a larger scale the problem will be multiplied.
>
> We've also run into a secondary risk that we really weren't focused on, though it arises with all R&D. When you are conducting research, you don't look immediately at how much this will cost the customer. You just want to achieve results and better performance.
>
> But when you talk about transferring the results to industry, costs play a prominent role. Industry won't pay for a technology that is too expensive and, therefore, not easily marketable.
>
> Researchers are like firefighters: While they put down one fire (technical problems), another fire (costs) rises.
>
> We've been granted a U.S. patent for the coating material. What's hindering it from getting to the mass market is cost-effectiveness.
>
> A graphite membrane won't work in a car, because the plates can't sustain the vibration and impacts. Metallic plates can hold up much better.
>
> Fuel-cell polymer membranes are still relatively expensive since they are fabricated by only one company. The only company that makes the membrane assembly uses graphite and puts in platinum as a catalyst in the electrodes, which is very expensive.
>
> We have been developing this for the last eight to 10 years. The cost of the research (not including salaries) is about $600,000. If you include salaries, it comes to triple that - maybe more.
>
> In the first two to three years we searched for which kind of corrosion-resistant coating we should use. In the following three years we narrowed down the coating to about five different ones. In the past three years we have been using one alloy and trying to optimize it.
>
> If this technology succeeds, it can be used in cars, motorcycles, forklifts, golf carts. Tiny versions of these cells will run your cell phone.
>
> http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-optaw5779196jul27,0,1216426.story
>
>
> U.S. Postal Service To Try Out Hydrogen Fuel Vehicles
> Vehicles Battery Powered, Only Emit Water
>
> UPDATED: 9:48 am CDT July 26, 2008
>
> [DIGG: U.S. Postal Service To Try Out Hydrogen Fuel Vehicles] [RSS] [PRINT: U.S. Postal Service To Try Out Hydrogen Fuel Vehicles] [EMAIL: U.S. Postal Service To Try Out Hydrogen Fuel Vehicles]
> MADISON, Wis. -- As gasoline prices continue to soar even the U.S. Postal Service is feeling the impact of price increases.
>
> The postal service is considering going green with hydrogen fuel trucks.
>
> Every time the price of gas goes up a penny, it costs the postal service $8 million. So this week, General Motors will turn over the keys of a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle to the USPS for testing in the mail delivery environment, WISC-TV reported.
>
> The vehicles are battery powered and have no ill effects on the environment with their only emission is water.
>
> "It rides the same, it breaks the same -- the biggest difference -- the biggest advantage is that we're not polluting," said pilot program participant Tom Williams.
>
> Of the 220,000 postal vehicles that deliver nearly half the world's mail, 43,000 are alternative fuel capable, WISC-TV reported.
>
> Copyright 2008 by Channel 3000. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
>
>
> http://www.channel3000.com/money/16998168/detail.html
> Is Water For Gas A Scam?
> www.RunCarByWater.com/Reviews
> Can You Really Convert Your Car To Run On Water? Find out the Truth!
> Honda FCX Clarity Fuel Cell Vehicle Lease Program Begins With ...
> FOXBusiness - Jul 26, 2008
>
> The FCX Clarity is a next-generation, hydrogen fuel cell-powered vehicle. Propelled by an electric motor that runs on electricity generated in the fuel cell ...
> New Gases For Your Car: Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Methane
> Hartford Courant, United States - 7 hours ago
> The company has assembled what it describes as a hydrogen-assisted fuel system for passenger vehicles that it hopes to have on the market in six months. ...
>
>
> Reply 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Enayet Hossain <enayeth111@yahoo.com>
> Date: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:07 pm
> Subject: Re: [bdresearchers] 4 replies - "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Surely our objective is not to identify the original or real inventor of "Creating fuel from water"; rather our quest must be to urge competent authorities to run a feasibility study whether it is worthy to develop the technology for marketing. Ours is a poor country, we need fuel on a cheaper rate, because we are unable to invade oil-reached countries. If the technology carries any merit it should be brought to notice of competent entrepreneurs. It is useless to exert our efforts to recognize the original inventor.
>
> Enayet
>
>
> Reply 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: "kazi farhan Ahmed" <farhan30@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:53 am
> Subject: Re: [bdresearchers] 4 replies - "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No body might have seen my links.thats y everybody is supporting mr jashim. i'm not against mr jashim but saying something like that i've invented this is a very wrong thing. I request to newspapers that they surf the internet about what has invented so long....
> i give antother example of that kind of invention.....
> It was NAYAN's Super COmputer...... that was completely a dumb.......it was nothing but a linux based clustering..he said he invented that but it was an open source project....and at that time we bangladeshi ppl less knew about clustering , internet and computer...
>
> but now you cant make such a news.......
>
> tanveer bhai , siraj bhai, morshed bhai you just visit this link
>
> http://www.watercartips.com/ or just google with this keyword
> run your car on watar
>
> just see out there, lots of millions of MR JASHIM has created there prototype and selling with 49.90$ dollars.. .which is cheaper than MR JASHIM with technical drawings and how to install videos....
>
> I completely agree with SATEZ bhai....
>
> once more i say, i'm not against mr JASHIM but the word inventor of the technology i cant accept and outside the country everybody will laugh at us.....that how poor is bangladeshi media that they cant even verify a news from internet.
>
>
> Previous Messages
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> On 7/20/08, bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com <bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Messages List
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 1. MURSHED H. akm, Re: Creating fuel from water? & Water instead of petrol - 2 Messages
> 2. Enayet Hossain, Re: "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol" - 2 Messages
> 3. M Tanver, Re: "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol" - 2 Messages
> 4. Kazi Farhan Ahmed, Re: "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol" - 2 Messages
>
>
> Reply 1
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: "MURSHED H. akm" <murshed@e-zonebd.com>
> Cc: <srmilan@gmail.com>, <satej@csebuet.org>, <sim@icddrb.org>
> Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:39 pm
> Subject: Re: Creating fuel from water? & Water instead of petrol - 2 Messages
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dear Mr. Milan :
>
> The News: You might have seen the news item published in the Daily Ittefaq on 15 July on the invention of a technology by a country-fellow in Chittagong to drive car. It is water not petrol which can run a motor vehicle! Unbelievable?
>
> The Comment: As I guess this one is also false. How does our newspaper get benefits by publishing these false articles?
>
> On above I, draw your attention.
>
> Since you are in Transportation Engineering Laboratory of Hiroshima University – Japan, why not taking an initiate and see what the Country-Fellow wanted to say. Why we are summarily rejecting the concept.
>
> If somebody follows the history of discovery / invention, we'll find lots of such instant rejection, but lots of those subsequently proved as effective.
>
> So Mr. Milan- would you do something ?
>
> Thank you.
>
> MURSHED Hossain, akm., Executive Director
> e-Zone Group, Dhaka
>
>
> Reply 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Enayet Hossain <enayeth111@yahoo.com>
> Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:51 pm
> Subject: Re: [bdresearchers] "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol" - 2 Messages
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> My request would be to enquire the fact with great importance by competent authority people. Paribesh Andolon can also conduct an investigation and publish a report about the claim of Mr. Jashim. Whatever is the effect we must appreciate the endeavour of Mr. Joynal Abdin Jashim to keep his zeal alive. Carry on Mr. Jashim.
>
> Enayet
>
>
> Reply 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: M Tanver <otanver@yahoo.com>
> Date: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:37 pm
> Subject: Re: [bdresearchers] "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol" - 2 Messages
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dear Satej
>
> Can you please let us know the details on what make you think that the following item is false?
>
> Thank you
> -Tanver
>
>
> Reply 4
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: "kazi farhan Ahmed" <farhan30@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:51 am
> Subject: Re: [bdresearchers] "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol" - 2 Messages
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> plz follow the link .
>
> this is not a new invention. it is a copied version from outside technology. he is saying he has invented but outside the world everybody says tha it is not invented by them but they has developed diferent prototype.such fake news publicity in bangladesh without surfing internet is very unpleasent for bangladesh future. plz follow this link everybody.
>
> http://www.watercartips.com/
>
> there are thousands of inventor of this techinque outside. u just google on using this keyword "running car on water". you'll get thousands of inventor out there.
>
> i appreciate his prototype but he is not the inventor of this technology.
>
>
> Original Message
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- On Tue, 7/15/08, bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com <bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> From: bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com <bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [bdresearchers] "Creating fuel from water?" & "Water instead of petrol" - 2 Messages
> To: bdresearchers@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 12:19 AM
>
> Messages List
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> 1. Saidur Rahman Milan, Creating Fuel from water!!!!
> 2. Sirajul Islam Mollah, Water instead of petrol
>
> Message 1
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> From: "Saidur Rahman Milan" <srmilan@gmail. com>
> Date: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:19 am
> Subject: Creating Fuel from water!!!!
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
> Here is this article
>
> http://www.ittefaq. com/content/ 2008/07/15/ news0007. htm
>
> As I guess this one is also false. How does our newspapers get benefits by publishing these false articles?
>
> Satej
> CSE 99
>
> --
> Saidur Rahman Milan
> Room #: 301(Transportation Engineering Lab)
> International Development and Cooperation (IDEC)
> Hiroshima University
> 1-5-1 Kagamiyama, Higashi-Hiroshima
> 739-8529 JAPAN
> Phone: 0081-90-6430- 7214 (Mobile), 0081-82-422- 6555 (Home)
> Web URL: http://srmilan. tripod.com/ , http://home.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/hitel/
>
> [Message has been forwarded from BUETian and originally sent by Abdullah Al Mahmud <satej@csebuet. org>]
>
> Message 2
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> From: "Sirajul Islam Mollah" <sim@icddrb.org>
> Date: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:40 pm
> Subject: Water instead of petrol
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
> Dear Colleagues:
>
> You might have seen the news item published in the Daily Ittefaq on 15 July on the invention of a technology by a country-fellow in Chittagong to drive car. It is water not petrol which can run a motor vehicle! Unbelievable? Then read the following link. I would then highly appreciate comments particularly on disadvantages, if any. Hope there will be no disadvantage, rather it would bring a revolutionary change in the world environment which is seriously affected by fossil fuel. The inventor claimed that 80-90% fossil fuel would be saved and if so definitely we can save this beautiful world for our next generations.
>
> Based on your comments I would like to move forward to organize a seminar under the banner of Bangladesh Paribesh Andolan and Sunder Jiban.
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Siraj
> Md. Sirajul Islam Molla
> Division Coordination Manager
> and Translator & Managing Editor
> Health and Science Bulletin, HSID, ICDDR,B
> GPO Box 128, Dhaka 1000, Bangladesh
> Tel. 880-2-8860523- 32/2501, 8811055
> Cell. 0171-3093-887
> Email: sim@icddrb.org, Web: www.icddrb.org
> [Let us commit to save environment for our next generations]
>
> (www.ittefaq. com).
> URL: http://www.ittefaq.com/content/2008/07/15/news0007.htm
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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